Interactive Panel

8^th World Conference (November 2005)

At the conclusion of Mr. Chudasama’s talk, Dr. Gries announced that the questions that the delegates had written on the 3 x 5 index cards that were passed out at the conclusion of the previous session had been categorized and sorted and given to the panel members. He introduced the panel as consisting of Dr. Michael Goldstein, Dr. Narendra Reddy, Air Chief Marshall N. C. Suri, and Dr. William Harvey, member of Prasanthi Council.

Question 1. “Why are previous Conference recommendations and resolutions not implemented?”

Answer 1. (Dr. Goldstein): Many recommendations and resolutions have been made. Suggested changes to the Charter are being considered by members of the Prasanthi Council. Some resolutions may have been changed by Swami, some by the Organization, some were not suitable for adoption, some were impossible to implement, and it was resolved not to implement them. Some in responsible positions may not have been responsible. We all do our best but we are all imperfect. Still, we should always come together in the spirit of Love and unity.

Q2. There were a number of questions about the importance of vegetarian food. Swami advises us to abstain from non-vegetarian food. There are some officers that are not vegetarians, what is your opinion on this? Is being vegetarian necessary to achieve unity, purity, divinity?

A2. (Dr. Reddy): It is important to be a vegetarian for a spiritual seeker. Swami gives many discourses on food. Food is not only what we eat, but also what we see, what we hear, etc. It is all sensory experience. Swami has given us the pathway of vegetarianism. Satwic food is very important in order to put us in tune with the Divine. Swami says that the essence of food becomes our mind. Our thoughts are influenced by our food. Swami’s four basic requirements of a seeker are: vegetarianism, no smoking, no gambling, no alcohol. Whatever food we take should be offered to God. We shouldn’t be too obsessed with food. We are devotees of Swami. He has told us what is good for us. Satwic food is good for us. It is very important in order to tune into the Divine. Even satwic food in excess becomes thamasic. We should follow His command. Offering the food to God is the first step to unity, purity and divinity.

(Dr. Harvey): A point about enforcing rules on others. We should try to set good examples, by focusing on trying our best to follow Swami’s teachings in our own lives. We have to be careful not to judge others. Swami once said it is more important what comes out of the mouth than what goes into it. Let us first be sure we study and discuss Swami’s teachings on this, and other subjects. And one of His main teachings is for us to avoid criticizing or finding faults in others. Work on ourselves, set good examples, try not to become judgmental.

Q3. In Europe we talk about our own culture. Why can’t we spread Baba’s culture of unity when we go back?

A3. (Dr. Goldstein): We are one spirit. We are consciousness. It pleases God that there is diversity in the world, with unity as the basis. Don’t talk of Sai culture. Think of unity in diversity. It transcends all cultures.

Q4. Is it necessary to have Hindu rituals and Indian culture in Sai Centers in Australia?

A4. (Dr. Goldstein): Swami says that all Sai Centers should reflect human values. Swami emphasizes the human values. The primary thing is Love. Do not emphasize the rituals. Emphasize the unity of faith and reflect the five human values.

Q5. Should Sai Centers in the West be outposts of Hindu spirituality and culture?

A5. (Dr. Goldstein): No.

(Dr. Harvey): The most important thing is that we try to make the people that visit our centers feel comfortable. The emphasis should be on the universality of Swami’s message. People do not have to change their religion or adopt a new one because they are drawn to Sathya Sai Baba and His teachings. Therefore, we should not give the impression that one has to worship Him within the context of any particular religious

orientation.

Also, it is just a matter of common courtesy that we should seek to make visitors to our centers feel comfortable. Welcome them warmly and lovingly, because whether they realize it or not they were drawn there so that they might experience some of the Love that we have received from Swami. Let’s not put obstacles in their way. Try to explain things in a loving way. The setting should reflect universality of faiths. Swami’s Love should be allowed to flow through us.

(Air Chief Marshall Suri): It is important to have a focus on equality. For a long time, I was a ‘rabid Hindu,’ which really only meant I knew nothing about Hinduism. Baba has now given me the inspiration to look into other religions. I have learned 20 prayers from other religions. They are all to the same God. The focus in the Sai center should be multi-faith.

Q6. Will Swami answer these questions?

A6. (Dr. Goldstein): Swami likely will not address everything in His Discourse. His answers come in many ways. The answer may come from friends and others, it could be an insight. That is Swami’s way. He is Divinity. We must look into our own heart. And reflect on our actions. Swami will uplift and inspire us and help us address these questions.

Q7. How can we always be connected to Swami?

A7. (Dr. Reddy): Hear no evil, hear what is good. See no evil, see what is good. Speak no evil, speak what is good. Then we will be in touch with the Lord. This is what Swami has said, “When you have a problem, go to a corner, sit quietly, think about Me and the answer you get is My voice.” It is in the depths of silence that the voice of God can be heard. Practice the essence of the values – help ever, hurt never, and Love all, serve all.

(Dr. Harvey): We are always connected to Swami, we just have to switch on our receiving unit. The experiences we are given are specific messages to each of us, especially when we are here in the Ashram. Swami says that none of us comes here of our own volition. He has brought us here, and He is constantly looking at each of us—in the context of our past, present and our future. The most important thing is for us to keep in mind this fact. We’ll never understand Him fully through the mind.

So don’t try. “Relinquish the imperative to understand,” He has said. He is giving us precisely the experiences we need. We are fortunate to be here and must take this Love back home and share it. Practice seeing God everywhere: practice, practice, practice.

(Air Chief Marshall Suri): In order to be near Swami, you have to surrender to Him. If you do, you will be near to Him. This morning I was sitting on the veranda wanting padnamaskar. An inner voice said, “Move to the other side,” which I did, and I got padnamaskar. If you want to hear Swami, surrender. If you want to serve Swami, surrender.

Q8. How can I Love people who constantly irritate me and those who try to rule others’ lives? Explain how can I see God in them?

A8. (Dr. Harvey): Everything is God; everyone is God. He has taken all these various forms. The person who is irritating us is playing a role. The role has a purpose that is divinely inspired. But we should not be focusing so much on what others are doing, but on how we are responding. That is the key. Our buttons are being pushed for a good reason, to stimulate us to reflect upon our own behavior, or reactions and emotional responses.

Go inwards. We should look at ourselves, continually go inward. We have to ask, ‘Why does this irritate me so? Why am I upset?’

(Dr. Reddy): Whenever you are criticized, God is speaking through the person who criticizes you. Our enemies are our real friends because they point out our flaws so we can improve. We don’t like people pointing out our flaws, but it is helpful if we can take this and learn from it. What can I learn? How can I improve? Try, try, try to accept everything that happens to us, and reflect on our reactions.

(Dr. Harvey): Pain and suffering have a positive value for our spiritual development. If we never get out of our comfort zone, we stagnate. Swami frequently asks, “What change is there in you from coming to Prasanthi Nilayam for many years?” We must strive to welcome every experience that comes, even the painful ones, that comes to us. Everything is for our good. Just witness everything and don’t label it good or bad.

Remember, Swami says that whatever happens is through His Will, and for our good.

Q9. What is the role of the Sai Organization in responding to disasters such as the tsunami?

A9. (Dr. Goldstein): We are a spiritual organization. We render service when we can. But we are not an organization like the Red Cross. Adversity in the world and suffering of fellow beings is an opportunity for us to respond lovingly, to alleviate that suffering. Collectively as an Organization, it allows us to use our resources for this purpose. We are not primarily a service organization but service is for our sadhana.

We are being exemplars of people who recognize the divinity within all. We are not here to formalize an army of disaster managers. Our service is to uplift others. Hungry people can’t think about God. Serving food to hungry people empowers them to see the divinity in themselves. Obviously, when human suffering occurs, then they can’t think about God. They are mainly concerned about sustaining their bodies. The same is true for other handicaps such as mental disturbance, homelessness, alcoholism, etc.

We must think in terms of the higher spiritual significance of service. We are not here to create a bureaucracy of managers who will go out in the world, responding to every tragedy.

As leaders, we always pray to Swami for guidance, and try to act appropriately in terms of whatever guidance we get. Often, leaders pray and obtain guidance. We are always looking to serve, but we should not become preoccupied with making the organization a place to train people to go out and manage disasters. Seek Swami within. Adversity and enemies are opportunities to go inwards and to Love.

Q10. Doesn’t the Organization need to set a vision? The Organisation is not addressing its sustainability. The speakers are not addressing the theme of the conference.

A10. (Dr. Goldstein): First of all, there is no question of addressing sustainability. This organization is imbued with divinity, founded in the name of Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Imbued with Love, wisdom and power insofar as we are able to come together as devotees and tap that Love, the organization is invulnerable and eternal as is Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Swami has said so.

The vision is not a five- or a ten-year plan of building edifices, etc. The vision is that all will look for Love in our hearts, find that Love and practice that Love and then take that Love into the world as embodiments of Love. That is the vision of the Organization. This was said by Sri Indulal Shah and by Sri V. Srinivasan.

There is effectiveness and efficiency. With effectiveness, we know what is right by looking into our own hearts and the Charter. With regard to efficiency, we do what we do with the least amount of energy. Sometimes, when we are acting with the highest Love in mind, it is not the most efficient. Sometimes, efficiency is mindless or insensitive. We’re not efficient in the economic sense. It is not the Organization’s nature. At times like this, we must think who we are. We come together to pursue the purpose of this organization, but we have to do within an orderly structure.

Q11. Can there be social mixing of sexes in the Sai Organization? It is strange in my society to separate the sexes. There are no arranged marriages in the west, how are they to meet?

A11. (Dr. Harvey): Try to look at what Swami says, and strive to move towards that. Our minds will foster doubts, always. We worry what happens if my child does not meet the right person. It comes back to the fact that we have to keep working on ourselves and to pray for stronger faith. Our mind convinces us that we are the doers, but that just is not so. All is God’s Play. He is the Director. It is all in divine order. We have to relax, to “let go, and let God.” Have confidence that things will work out. We don’t have to be worried that we are the ones who do everything.

(Air Chief Marshall Suri): Men and women can relate. Our understanding of Love now is based on animal instincts, but Love should be pure. Swami gives us options, take time to think about what will be correct action. Do relations have to be physical? It is the manner in which we relate to one another that becomes important. Love is different from relationships. We have the task of letting people know the difference. The problem you mention is not foreign to Indians.

Q12. All the members of the Prasanthi Council are men. Why? This panel is all men. Why?

A12. (Dr. Goldstein): Swami appointed the members of the Prasanthi Council. With regard to the panel, I thought these people would be the best to serve you.

Q13. What should we do about money? Money is a problem in organizing events. Could our Sai center turn to other centers when we don’t have money for the event? Should Sai Schools levy fees?

A13. (Dr. Goldstein): We should not levy fees in Sai schools. Don’t embark on anything that exceeds your resources. Let Swami guide you from within.

There was a similar question about whether a Sai center may accept support from government agencies. The answer is no! Of course, unusual circumstances may arise. In that event go through the Sai Organization hierarchy and obtain approval from a higher authority in the Sai Organization. Normally, we don’t involve ourselves with other agencies about money. What is the single most important thing the Centers

should observe? Swami told Dr. Hislop that the Organization should have as little to do with money as possible. Use common sense, but in general, we should avoid those situations that cause us to become embroiled with money. We’re not fundraisers, finding money to train people to do this, that and the other. This is not the nature of the Organization. We are spiritual aspirants. We are a group of loving people.

(Dr. Harvey): Frequently, we reflect on the nature of our organization and draw parallels with other organizations, but we are unique. We view service as a spiritual practice. Our service activities do not have to be big, large scale projects. It is service to smile at someone, or to ring up a shut-in with a few words of cheer. We don’t have to have big projects. Look for the unity beneath the diversity. Navigate the world with awareness that all are One. We don’t have to think of ourselves as “doing” so much. Swami assures us we will reach the goal.

Q14. Is it right to try to correct the faults of others?

A14. (Dr. Reddy): We are not here to correct others. Never try to find fault with others. We are all here to know who we are. We are here to transform ourselves and mind our own business. Jesus said, “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” Forgiveness should be our very nature. On her deathbed, when Sarada Devi was asked to give her final message, she said, “If you want peace of mind, don’t find fault with others. But find your own faults.” You can find answers to this in Prema Vahini.

Q15. Heads of the Sai organization are becoming status conscious. How could this be remedied?

A15. (Dr. Goldstein): The remedy for officers who are so status conscious is to treat them with Love. If they remain status conscious and this a problem, then there is recourse to higher levels of the organization. But first reflect and check that this is not something within yourself that you are projecting onto others. Make sure there is no dirt in your own eye. If status consciousness is detrimental to the function of the Sai Center then appeal to a higher level in the organization.

(Dr. Harvey): The faults we see in others are reflections of unresolved issues within ourselves. It means we have work to do on ourselves. When we find ourselves finding faults, we should take some time out to reflect on the irritating events. And then ask do I have some tendencies in the same direction? For example, we might conclude we have 10% of the bad behavior, and the office bearer has 90%. Work to reduce your 10%. If you reduce yours to 5%, you will find what you now perceive in the other is reduced by 50%.

We need to give others the benefit of the doubt. There is always another side to the problem. When a child comes up to the teacher on the school yard complaining about another child, the teacher always knows there are two sides to the story. However, as adults we tend to take sides when we hear a complaint. Swami tells us not to take sides, not to enlarge the conflict. Show patience, Love and understanding, and solve the problem quietly as you do with small children. Bring people together in a loving way.

(Dr. Reddy): Swami tells the story of Dharmaraja, who is an embodiment of goodness and righteousness and Duryodana, who is a man of evil nature. Sri Krishna sent both of them to the town to look for a good person. Dharmaraja came back and said all the people in the town were good while Duryodana could not find anybody good other than himself. Swami says the world is thus our own reflection. We have to wear the eye glasses of Prema and then we see everything as Prema.

Q16. Office bearers in the Sai organization should not hold an office in another spiritual organization. Please discuss.

A16. (Dr. Goldstein): Office bearers should be single-minded on this Name and Form. If an office bearer wants to be in another organization, then he or she should resign as an office bearer from our organization and just be a devotee.

Q17. Should overseas Sai Centers in their meetings copy what happens at Prasanthi, or should they reflect the local culture?

A17. (Dr. Goldstein): The center should reflect Prasanthi to the extent that it is steeped in Love only. All centers should reflect that Love. Regarding the actual content of the programs, we talk about unity in diversity and that God is in all names and forms. Therefore, centers should adapt to all cultures. Do you go back and make wholesale changes? No. We should evolve toward our own culture. We need to be conscious of culture. It’s a part of creation. Don’t become preoccupied with this. As we become enlightened, Love will shine through Swami’s Divine message in all lands and cultures.