Interactive Session 2

8th World Conference (November 2005)

 

At 1:30 pm Dr. Gries welcomed the group back to the fourth and final session of the conference. Dr. Goldstein made a few opening remarks:

 

There are many questions about education. I will make a brief statement. Professor Anil Kumar will make some further comments later this afternoon. The Prasanthi Council has convened a subcommittee to review the status of SSE, SSEHV and their relationship to the concept of Educare. Eminent Sai educators are involved, including Dr. Pal Dhall, Dr. Art-Ong Jumsai, Ronne Marantz, Bea Flaig, Victor Kanu, Thorbjorn Meyer, Tom Scovill, Mr. Gomez and others. They have compiled a document which is still under deliberations. The Prasanthi Council will act on the recommendations in a way that best serves the Sai organization.

 

We will now continue with the questions.

 

Q18. When can we expect the answers to the questions?

A18. (Dr. Goldstein): It will take a while to put all the answers in some order. They will be sent out by the Organization. The notes from the Conference will be distributed at some point, but not in the next few days.

 

A question from this morning was about how to handle difficulty with officers. First talk to the officer, then go to the Regional Officer, then to the Central Council President and finally to the Central Coordinator.

 

Sri Anil Kumar and Sri Narasimha Murthy

Dr. Goldstein announced that Sri Anil Kumar and Sri Narasimha Murthy, warden of Brindavan Campus, would join in the panel discussion of those questions relating to education/educare and spirituality. He said that Sai Spiritual Education and Sathya Sathya Education in Human Values are ways of eliciting the human values that are intrinsic within us. Educare is drawing out that which is within, the same as bringing forth who we really are. The teacher should be an exemplar of these values. The teaching techniques used are silent sitting, group activities, group singing, quotes and stories as components of the pedagogic formula. The only difference is that SSEHV is used in public schools and based on the Unity of Faiths, whereas SSE focuses on the teachings of the Kali Yuga Avatar, Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.

 

(Sri Narasimha Murthy): Educare is all about spirituality. In the Bhagavad Gita, Sri Krishna has said, “Among all types of education, I am spiritual education.” The tragedy is that now God and spirituality have no place in education in schools and colleges. Spiritual education is cultivating faith and devotion in all hearts, which is what Swami has been doing. It is our duty that we do this. In fact, I found a young boy in school wearing a T-shirt. On the front, it said, “I was born good but spoiled by education.” On the back, “I was born smart, but made dull by education.”

 

This is what has been going on in education. In contrast, as in Swami’s schools, it is important to implement values education in all schools from primary to college level.

 

(Sri Anil Kumar): Yesterday, I gave a talk, ‘Education to Educare’, and did not speak on all the points. Educare deals with the center of our life. It cannot be taught. It is the truth of our being. Education deals with the periphery of your life. Educare is the very being of life, it is the center. Education and Educare are not contradictory. Both are necessary. Root [Educare] and fruit [education] go together Awareness, alertness, awake-ness, responsiveness, acceptance and conviction are features of Educare, not to be acquired. To be in the presence of Swami is the best form of Educare. Educare is beyond religion. It is spiritual.

 

Q19. Is Love really necessary when the demonic personalities can also attain liberation?

 

A19. (Sri Narasimha Murthy): Demons are symbols for gluttony, anger, jealousy, sleepiness, etc. The demon Kumbakarna exemplifies that. But his Love for God finally overcame these to take him to the Lotus feet. Kumbakarna and Ravana were two brothers, who were doorkeepers to Vishnu in their previous births, cursed by Sage Brighu who was frustrated by them in his access to Vishnu. They had the choice to take either nine births as friends of the Lord and then return to the Lotus feet or three births as enemies of the Lord. They chose three births. They were born as Hiranyaksha and Hirayakashyapu, Ravana and Kumbkarana and Dantavakra and Shishupala, in three births. After these three lives, they went back to Vishnu.

 

Where there is true Love, all negativities fly away. If we develop Love, we will overcome all weaknesses.

 

(Dr. Reddy): Their Love for God was so intense that they selected to come to earth for the shortest time.

 

Q20. Discipline of sevadals on the ladies’ side is severe. Can anything be done?

 

A20. (Dr. Goldstein): Sevadals are volunteers and are not highly trained or experienced. They are doing their best. Forgive them and be patient and gracious. Clearly, if their transgressions are serious we will take up these issues if you bring them to our attention.

 

(Sri Anil Kumar): Sevadals are not paid or trained. They are there to enhance Sadhana. It also helps our Sadhana by bending to the discipline. Once, a devotee was trying to offer Swami a letter in darshan. The devotee was roughly restrained by the sevadal. Then Swami reached over and took the letter. The sevadal was looking distressed and feared she was being corrected. But Swami consoled her by saying, “you did your duty, and I did mine.”

 

Q21. You said that Swami was not happy because we had not changed in 20 years. Are there any signs of change now?

 

A21. (Dr. Goldstein): This is not quite what Swami said. He did say, we are not taking seriously His teachings: your lives have not changed. You have the same habits and are not applying the teachings. Time is the body of God. You have access to the Divine teachings, but do not take them seriously. Swami is never unhappy. He is encouraging us to become blissful.

 

Q22. Kindly elaborate on conscious, conscience and consciousness.

 

A22. (Sri Narasimha Murthy): According to Swami, Conscious refers to the body and senses. Conscience refers to the subtle body and mind, and the Divine spark that makes the body work. Consciousness is the one source from which everything emerges. In Ramayana, Rama asked Hanuman, “Who are you?” He replied, “When I have body consciousness, I am your servant. When I feel the Divine spark within, I am part of You. When I realize the ultimate truth, You and I are one.”

 

(Sri Anil Kumar): What is limited to the body and senses is conscious. God in me is Conscience. God is everywhere, that is Consciousness.

 

Q23. What are the aspects and milestones by which we may measure our spiritual progress?

 

A23. (Sri Narasimha Murthy): People have misconceptions about how to assess spiritual progress. There are four yardsticks that I call, a,b,c and d. These are based on Swami’s teachings and the Bhagavad Gita. (a) awareness of inner joy and Love; (b) balance of mind, equanimity, (c) control of desires and senses (to what extent have you mastered the senses?); and (d) dedication of Selfless Service for the welfare of

others. This contains all the essence of the scriptures. Remember that we can be egocentric even in doing Swami’s work.

 

Q24. Is it necessary to teach mantras, slokas and 108 names in Western countries?

 

A24. (Sri Anil Kumar): Please do not do this. Following Baba’s teachings is not a religion. Baba said all names are Mine. Teachings such slokas is conversion. Sathya Sai Organization is not a sect. We will invite animosity by doing this. Sathya Sai represents Unity of Religions. God does not speak only Sanskrit, God speaks English also. Use your mother tongue for prayers.

 

Q25. How to achieve unity in thought, word and deed.

 

A25. (Dr. Reddy): Swami said that great souls have harmony of thought, word and deed. Swami corrects us when we deviate from this. Swami says that practice of unity in thought, word and deed is the penance for this age.

 

Q26. What is the difference between emotion and devotion?

 

A26 (Sri Narasimha Murthy): It is the Bhava that leads to Avesha, thrill in devotion, and that leads to Bhava-Samadhi, ecstasy of union with God. Ramakrishna said that the power of emotion leads to experience of devotion which leads to Samadhi. Ramakrishna used to dance like a madman. His devotees started to imitate him, to show their devotion. Vivekananda said, “Do not be sentimental fools.” However devotion is Love for God and is an emotion. But this emotion is free of attachments. We can become mad with joy. Devotion is not sentimental. It is feelings from the heart that lead to the experience of devotion, and it further leads to union with God.

 

Once Swami materialized a matchbox and took out a match and struck it to light it. Then he took out another match, dipped it in water, and struck it. This match did not light. He said, in devotion, if there are attachments, it will be like the wet matchstick.

 

(Sri Anil Kumar): Distilled, crystallized, solid emotion is devotion.

 

Q27. Can a person be involved in business, i.e., in material life, and also lead a spiritual life?

 

A27. (Sri Anil Kumar): Why not? We are all examples of this. Spiritual life is not giving up our daily routines and running away from the world and neglecting our respective duties and responsibilities. It is an attitude, it is awareness and understanding, it is what we do and how we act. If I do my job as service to God, and offer my work to God, that is a spiritual life. There is only one work – God’s work. All is spiritual, whatever we do. There is no secular or sacred. All is Swami’s. Begin every job with a prayer and end the day offering the fruits to the Lord. That is spiritual life.

 

As long as there is separation of secular and spiritual, we miss the point.

 

 

The conference was officially closed with the assembly chanting the prayer, Loka Samastha, Sukhino Bhavantu (May all the worlds be happy!).